Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily an
organization would do this because paying the credit card processing fee
costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small outfits
and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting cousin
Bill's wife back to part time.

I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
(further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?

Ann wrote:
> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily an
> organization would do this because paying the credit card processing fee
> costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small outfits
> and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting cousin
> Bill's wife back to part time.
>
> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?

Other benefits would include faster funds availability and fewer problems
with bounced check fees. And if you go further into debt to someone else
as long as they get paid it's not their problem.

--
Self-interest, caused by low selfish desire, is the root
cause of contemporary world chaos and individual misery.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:18:05 -0400, Elmo wrote:

> Ann wrote:
>> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
>> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily
>> an organization would do this because paying the credit card processing
>> fee costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small
>> outfits and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting
>> cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
>>
>> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
>> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
>> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
>
> Other benefits would include faster funds availability and fewer problems
> with bounced check fees. And if you go further into debt to someone else
> as long as they get paid it's not their problem.

I wonder how the funds availability will work out. Since the REC has a 5%
late pay penalty, I have usually paid them early. Now, it will be the
day before. <g>

Ann wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:18:05 -0400, Elmo wrote:
>
>> Ann wrote:
>>> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
>>> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily
>>> an organization would do this because paying the credit card processing
>>> fee costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small
>>> outfits and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting
>>> cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
>>>
>>> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
>>> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
>>> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
>> Other benefits would include faster funds availability and fewer problems
>> with bounced check fees. And if you go further into debt to someone else
>> as long as they get paid it's not their problem.
>
> I wonder how the funds availability will work out. Since the REC has a 5%
> late pay penalty, I have usually paid them early. Now, it will be the
> day before. <g>
>



I developed such a payment system for a company I once worked for and it
was not so much something that the company needed. The rates at the
time, which I also assisted in developing in earlier years, did not
foresee the impact merchant account processing fees which could take as
much as 3% - we did put a cap on the upper payment limit to avoid a
customer paying a $1,000,000 bill with VISA - don't know if that's even
possible but our limit was $1,000. What really drove the move to online
payment was primarily customer pressure for the convenience, although
there was also a sort of peer pressure in the industry to appear
"progressive" - whatever that means.


In answer to your comment about cousin Bill's wife going part time to
save money - maybe not so much her, but future employees hired part time
can save a *bundle* if the part time employment terms exclude medical
insurance and retirement benefits, which they often do. Even in a union
environment, part time employees don't get the same union representation
as the lifers - that's an area companies fight very hard to control.


It doesn't make sense to think the utility's objective might be to drive
people deeper in debt - what purpose would be served by that?

Ann wrote:
>
> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily an
> organization would do this because paying the credit card processing fee
> costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small outfits
> and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting cousin
> Bill's wife back to part time.
>
> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/40497.html

and yes, I felt sad for them...

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:51:30 -0500, AL wrote:

> Ann wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:18:05 -0400, Elmo wrote:
>>
>>> Ann wrote:
>>>> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
>>>> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card.
>>>> Ordinarily an organization would do this because paying the credit
>>>> card processing fee costs less than hand-processing paper checks.
>>>> But, both are small outfits and I doubt either will realize the
>>>> potential savings by cutting cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
>>>> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
>>>> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
>>> Other benefits would include faster funds availability and fewer
>>> problems with bounced check fees. And if you go further into debt to
>>> someone else as long as they get paid it's not their problem.
>>
>> I wonder how the funds availability will work out. Since the REC has a
>> 5% late pay penalty, I have usually paid them early. Now, it will be
>> the day before. <g>
>>
>>
>
>
> I developed such a payment system for a company I once worked for and it
> was not so much something that the company needed. The rates at the time,
> which I also assisted in developing in earlier years, did not foresee the
> impact merchant account processing fees which could take as much as 3% -
> we did put a cap on the upper payment limit to avoid a customer paying a
> $1,000,000 bill with VISA - don't know if that's even possible but our
> limit was $1,000. What really drove the move to online payment was
> primarily customer pressure for the convenience, although there was also a
> sort of peer pressure in the industry to appear "progressive" - whatever
> that means.
>
> In answer to your comment about cousin Bill's wife going part time to save
> money - maybe not so much her, but future employees hired part time can
> save a *bundle* if the part time employment terms exclude medical
> insurance and retirement benefits, which they often do. Even in a union
> environment, part time employees don't get the same union representation
> as the lifers - that's an area companies fight very hard to control.

My assumption was that going to part time meant loss of health insurance
and other benefits.

> It doesn't make sense to think the utility's objective might be to drive
> people deeper in debt - what purpose would be served by that?

No, I don't think that is the utilities' objective. But I do think they'd
prefer that if customers are going to be in debt, it be to their credit
card providers.

Jim wrote:
> Ann wrote:
>> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
>> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily an
>> organization would do this because paying the credit card processing fee
>> costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small outfits
>> and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting cousin
>> Bill's wife back to part time.
>>
>> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
>> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
>> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
>
> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/40497.html
>
> and yes, I felt sad for them...

There are a lot of people living close to the edge.
And the edge gets closer every day.
Most of us are one serious illness away from bankruptcy.

--
The majority are misguided and ruled by some self-styled
leaders, who seek the limelight by fair means or foul.
They do not want the Truth, lest they lose their selfish
ends and be out of the picture. So, in order to be in the
public eye, they invent lies, concoct stories, distort
facts, and, in the name of public service, they present
these lies before the public. The public is misled either
because they are big names or by the very tricks of the
originators, who have the ability to misrepresent facts with
sensational talks that influence the weakness of the mass mind.

It is the same all over the world -- a game of winning and
losing -- the inevitable struggle for existence is in all
departments and aspects of life. The struggle goes on and on
in religion, politics, morality, ethics, business, industry,
et cetera, at different times and places, in different ways,
according to the conditions.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:46:39 -0400, Jim wrote:

> Ann wrote:
>>
>> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
>> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily
>> an organization would do this because paying the credit card processing
>> fee costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small
>> outfits and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting
>> cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
>>
>> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
>> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
>> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
>
> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/40497.html
>
> and yes, I felt sad for them...

Yes, there are a lot of people between a rock and hard place. And there
really doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

Elmo wrote:

>
> There are a lot of people living close to the edge.


If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space...

Ann wrote:

> Jim wrote:
> > Ann wrote:
> >>
> >> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
> >> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily
> >> an organization would do this because paying the credit card processing
> >> fee costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small
> >> outfits and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting
> >> cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
> >>
> >> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
> >> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
> >> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
> >
> > http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/40497.html
> >
> > and yes, I felt sad for them...
>
> Yes, there are a lot of people between a rock and hard place. And there
> really doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

giving some thought to the phrase or expression "rock and a hard place".
did anyone ever consider why the original phrase was not between two rocks?
or between two hard places?

just something to wonder about..

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:11:55 -0400, Jim wrote:

> Ann wrote:
>
>> Jim wrote:
>> > Ann wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
>> >> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card.
>> >> Ordinarily an organization would do this because paying the credit
>> >> card processing fee costs less than hand-processing paper checks.
>> >> But, both are small outfits and I doubt either will realize the
>> >> potential savings by cutting cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
>> >>
>> >> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
>> >> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
>> >> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
>> >
>> > http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/40497.html
>> >
>> > and yes, I felt sad for them...
>>
>> Yes, there are a lot of people between a rock and hard place. And there
>> really doesn't seem to be an end in sight.
>
> giving some thought to the phrase or expression "rock and a hard place".
> did anyone ever consider why the original phrase was not between two
> rocks? or between two hard places?
>
> just something to wonder about..

Another is "six of one and half dozen of the other" ... and I bet
linguists have a name for that type of phrase. To me, putting it that way
emphasizes that there is no choice. Yet another is that it takes seven
days to get over a cold if it's treated, and a week if it isn't.

Ann wrote:
>
> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily an
> organization would do this because paying the credit card processing fee
> costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small outfits
> and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting cousin
> Bill's wife back to part time.
>
> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?

Could they possibly have outsourced the CC collection along with other small
businesses/utilities as a 'value-added' service? You go online to what
looks like their payment site but which takes you (unknowingly) to Joe's
Online Collections who gets a tiny cut of each of the gazillions of
payments.
Charges for handling credit cards are part of the cost-of-doing-business and
is passed on the the customer at some point.

Steve
41N

"Elmo" <ElmoHateSpam@noSpam4U.org> wrote in message
news:g2mmpi$11cc$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu...
| Jim wrote:
| > Ann wrote:
| >> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
| >> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily
an
| >> organization would do this because paying the credit card processing
fee
| >> costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small
outfits
| >> and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting cousin
| >> Bill's wife back to part time.
| >>
| >> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
| >> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
| >> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
| >
| > http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/40497.html
| >
| > and yes, I felt sad for them...
|
| There are a lot of people living close to the edge.
| And the edge gets closer every day.
| Most of us are one serious illness away from bankruptcy.
|
| --
The US Bankruptcy court data reflects that more than 50% of the personal
bankruptcies in the US are due to medial problems and disability. The same
data reflects that majority of those problems are the result of the
insurance industry failing to live up to their contract commitments.

For more do a web search on ERISA and medical/disability insurance.

An aside Social Security runs a close second due to delays (up to 48 months
by GAO reports -- with 69% erroneous rejection)

Jim wrote:
> Ann wrote:
>
>> Jim wrote:
>>> Ann wrote:
>>>> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
>>>> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily
>>>> an organization would do this because paying the credit card processing
>>>> fee costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small
>>>> outfits and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting
>>>> cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
>>>> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
>>>> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
>>> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/40497.html
>>>
>>> and yes, I felt sad for them...
>> Yes, there are a lot of people between a rock and hard place. And there
>> really doesn't seem to be an end in sight.
>
> giving some thought to the phrase or expression "rock and a hard place".
> did anyone ever consider why the original phrase was not between two rocks?
> or between two hard places?
>
> just something to wonder about..
Homer used "between Scylla and Charybdis" in The Odyssey

--
This is an election year. By common law,
the truth is legally suspended.

The message <pan.2008.06.11.05.49.14.827371@epix.net>
from Ann <nntpmail@epix.net> contains these words:

> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:11:55 -0400, Jim wrote:

> >
> > giving some thought to the phrase or expression "rock and a hard place".
> > did anyone ever consider why the original phrase was not between two
> > rocks? or between two hard places?
> >
> > just something to wonder about..

> Another is "six of one and half dozen of the other" ... and I bet
> linguists have a name for that type of phrase.

Hendiasis

:-)

Janet

Ann <nntpmail@epix.net> wrote in
news:pan.2008.06.10.13.41.35.446686@epix.net:

> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun
> letting customers pay their bill online, by credit (or
> debit) card. Ordinarily an organization would do this
> because paying the credit card processing fee costs less
> than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small
> outfits and I doubt either will realize the potential
> savings by cutting cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
>
> I wonder if, given the number of people who have,
> reportedly, fallen behind on their utility bills, the
> objective is to have customers go (further) into debt with
> their credit card companies instead?

i pay my bills online because i'm almost always online. if i
have to mail a check, i never get around to it. Fairpoint took
over Verizon in my area & they have to call & remind me to pay
because they don't have online payment set up yet...
i go through twice a month (the 2nd & the 16th) & pay any
bills due, including credit cards. everything is bookmarked &
it takes me less than half an hour to get it done. i don't
have to worry about buying stamps, getting it into the mail,
my postal carrier losing it (a very frequent occurance, i'm
afraid) or getting to a post office.
i even have my medical bills set up to pay online, which is
really a lot more convenient because, as i have cancer, i have
doctors/labs in both Manchester & Lebanon, and they bill
seperately on paper. i can go online, see which doctor needs
paying, how much & which place, & pay it all at once.

why on earth would you assume that the idea is to get people
further in debt with credit cards? many of my bills are
actually paid by EFT, so no credit cards involved anyway.
on a semi-related note, one of my credit cards recently
raised my limit by a couple thousand dollars, which doesn't
thrill me, but they also lowered my interest rate
substantially at the same time... and i didn't even have to
request it.

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

Elmo <ElmoHateSpam@noSpam4U.org> wrote in
news:g2mmpi$11cc$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu:

> Jim wrote:
>> http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/40497.html
>>
>> and yes, I felt sad for them...

there's a station near me that started slapping a $90 hold on
credit (i don't have a debit card) that lasts 3 days. i no
longer get gas there.

> There are a lot of people living close to the edge.
> And the edge gets closer every day.
> Most of us are one serious illness away from bankruptcy.

i have cancer. i don't have insurance. this is going to cost
me a huge chunk of my annual income. fortunately, it's tax
deductable, and there'a a 1/3 discount for uninsured at the
medical center i go to... and, i can still afford it right
now.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:32:07 -0500, Whispurr the Cat wrote:

> Ann wrote:
>>
>> Both my electric (REC) and phone companies have just begun letting
>> customers pay their bill online, by credit (or debit) card. Ordinarily
>> an organization would do this because paying the credit card processing
>> fee costs less than hand-processing paper checks. But, both are small
>> outfits and I doubt either will realize the potential savings by cutting
>> cousin Bill's wife back to part time.
>>
>> I wonder if, given the number of people who have, reportedly, fallen
>> behind on their utility bills, the objective is to have customers go
>> (further) into debt with their credit card companies instead?
>
> Could they possibly have outsourced the CC collection along with other
> small businesses/utilities as a 'value-added' service? You go online to
> what looks like their payment site but which takes you (unknowingly) to
> Joe's Online Collections who gets a tiny cut of each of the gazillions of
> payments.

Interesting thought. I'll try to remember to check the url(s) the next
time I pay online.

> Charges for handling credit cards are part of the cost-of-doing-business
> and is passed on the the customer at some point.
>
> Steve
> 41N

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:47:27 +0100, Janet Baraclough wrote:

> The message <pan.2008.06.11.05.49.14.827371@epix.net> from Ann
> <nntpmail@epix.net> contains these words:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:11:55 -0400, Jim wrote:
>
>
>> > giving some thought to the phrase or expression "rock and a hard
>> > place". did anyone ever consider why the original phrase was not
>> > between two rocks? or between two hard places?
>> >
>> > just something to wonder about..
>
>> Another is "six of one and half dozen of the other" ... and I bet
>> linguists have a name for that type of phrase.
>
> Hendiasis
>
> :-)
>
> Janet

More commonly spelled as hendiadys? Thank you; I was reasonably confident
a resident Brit would come up with the answer. <g>

Ann wrote:
>
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:47:27 +0100, Janet Baraclough wrote:
>
> > The message <pan.2008.06.11.05.49.14.827371@epix.net> from Ann
> > <nntpmail@epix.net> contains these words:
> >
> >> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:11:55 -0400, Jim wrote:
> >
> >
> >> > giving some thought to the phrase or expression "rock and a hard
> >> > place". did anyone ever consider why the original phrase was not
> >> > between two rocks? or between two hard places?
> >> >
> >> > just something to wonder about..
> >
> >> Another is "six of one and half dozen of the other" ... and I bet
> >> linguists have a name for that type of phrase.
> >
> > Hendiasis
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Janet
>
> More commonly spelled as hendiadys? Thank you; I was reasonably confident
> a resident Brit would come up with the answer. <g>

hendiadys - :the expression of an idea by the use of usu. two independent words
connected by and (as nice and warm) instead of the usual combination of independent
word and its modifier (as nicely warm)

got my new word for the day. <g>